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America Keeps Rejecting an ID Card It Already Has

50 videos recommended on HN
YouTube
14 HN users recommended this explainer9 months2017–2024 score 9.5
Years with an HN recommendation, 2007–2026

HN reaches for it in every identity theft and data breach thread as the clearest, most enjoyable short explainer of why SSNs make bad identifiers.

CGP Grey explains the history of the US Social Security card and number, and why they became a de facto national ID despite never being meant for it. He also covers why America resists a proper identity card.

“this is the most enjoyable explanation for it I've seen, by CGP Grey” (HN, 2017)

2 strong recommendations · 12 recommendations · 6 citations · Explainers

20 Hacker News comments

From the HN archive; up to 20 kept per video, favoring different commenters. Recommendations first.

@sagitariusrex Sep 2017 Strongly recommends
on HN thread The Equifax Breach Exposes America's Identity Crisis
For everybody who isn't acquainted with how Social Security Cards work in the US and how they came to be I highly recommend watching "Social Security Cards Explained" by CGP Grey [this video] He also explains why US citizens don't have an Identity Card as opposed to many European countries.
Explains how SSCards came to be and why US lacks ID cards
@mjevans Apr 2017 Recommends
on HN thread Men Without Work
Don't blame the immigrants, blame those who are fully or partly paying under the table. Of course, would you support a national ID card as a means of combating this variable you accuse? In the US we pretty much have such a thing already, just without any proper security or identification aspects... [this video] (A short (< 8 min) video by the ever informative CGP Grey on the inanity of US SS cards.)
Short explainer on the flaws of US Social Security cards
@alehul Sep 2017 Recommends
on HN thread Cybersecurity Incident Involving Consumer Information
Read more
The SSN was never intended as a national ID. It was originally created alongside the Social Security Administration, to track what individuals put in and what they take out. People only received one upon becoming employed. Over time, the IRS realized that it could be used as a national ID, and adopted it for that purpose. They encouraged people to obtain one from a young age (even for their newborn children), and it was used to replace the original 'honor system' of 'How many children do you have?' tax discounts; now they'd need to register their child with a SSN. Companies eventually began piggybacking on the number as a national identifier (due to our lack of one), and voila. We're left with an awfully insecure identification system that shouldn't be an identification system for much in the first place. For anyone interested in more: [this video] , and the sources below the video.
History of how SSNs became a de facto national ID
@vec Sep 2017 Recommends
on HN thread Stop Calling it ‘Identity Theft’
CGP Gray did a really good video[1] about this recently. The short version is that it's the least terrible mechanism presently available for uniquely identifying and disambiguating American citizens. [1] [this video]
Explains SSN as least terrible way to identify Americans
@Qub3d Nov 2017 Recommends
on HN thread Senators push to ditch social security numbers in light of Equifax hack
Here's a relevant pop science video by CGP Grey[0] that explains all the various problems with SSNs. My favorite part is the fact that until quite recently (2011) you could decrement or increment a given SSN by 1 and get another valid SSN, since they were sequential. [0]: [this video]
Pop science explanation of SSN problems, including sequential numbering
@ocdtrekkie Jul 2019 Recommends
on HN thread FTC Approves Roughly $5B Facebook Settlement
Actually, the SSN is an account number, solely intended for tracking money paid into and paid out of an account. It isn't meant for identification, and the method it's used for identification is terrible. (Largely: If you know the number, you are identified.) It's treated like a secret, but as a 9-digit number you give to dozens of organizations in your life which follows a predictable and partially guessable pattern, it is an absolutely terrible secret. Absolutely good explainer video about how this travesty took place historically: [this video]
Good explainer on how SSN became misused as identification
@manigandham Oct 2019 Recommends
on HN thread Bank of the Underworld (2015)
CGP Grey recently made a great video about this exact problem with social security numbers: [this video] They were started to keep of taxes and never meant to be used as IDs.
Great video on SSNs never meant as IDs
@remcob Apr 2020 Recommends
on HN thread Having trouble with the IRS site? Try all caps
Read more
This video does a great job explaining it: [this video] The summary is that the USA does not have an official national person identity number. The SSN is the closest approximation, so it is being (ab)used as one. This is despite that it is explicitly not designed for it and has some qualities which make it less suitable (the numbers are small and very predictable). In general, nearly every national-identity-system suffers from a contradiction between assigning identities and identifying. Where the number you get assigned is simultaneously your identity and a secret you use to establish your identity. There are initiatives to solve this using cryptography, but this is complicated by political attitudes towards privacy and government tracking. I dare say in the USA this is more pronounced due to both the problem and the political attitude against solutions being more pronounced.
Explains why SSNs are poorly suited as national identity numbers
@anitil Mar 2021 Recommends
on HN thread No, I did not hack your MS Exchange server
The story of how this happened is quite interesting. CGP Grey did a video about how it evolved [0]. I'm not American so I can't judge how likely it is to ever change because it seems to be politically radioactive to propose a government mandated ID. We had a similar issue in Australia, but our workaround is that your drivers license (or ID card from the equivalent of the DMV) typically acts as your ID. [0] [this video]
Tells how the SSN evolved into a de facto ID
@quantumfissure Aug 2024 Recommends
on HN thread Inside the "3 billion people" national public data breach
For non-Americans (and Americans) that don't quite understand what SSN is and why it's a problem, CGP Grey [1] has a great (and short) video about the history and why it's not technically an identifier, but has become one. [1] [this video]
Short history of why SSN became an identifier despite not being one

Citations, criticism and jokes

@pfranz Mar 2017 Cites it
on HN thread You can’t buy Congress’s web history – that's not how any of this works
You're right. My guess is most "anonymized" data is lazy--stripping out obvious identifying information. There are quite a few cases where you can pinpoint users from correlating to publicly available data. CGPGrey posted a video today showing a layman's example with Social Security Numbers[1]. One cool thing I heard Apple talk about[2] was injecting noise or subsampling to help mask individuals. Although, I don't see that mentioned in their public page on privacy[3] or their whitepaper[4]. [1] [this video] [2] [link] [3] [link] [4] [link]
Shows how Social Security Numbers enable identifying anonymized data
@djsumdog Apr 2017 Cites it
on HN thread For 18 years I thought she was stealing my identity, until I found her
Read more
This happened to a photography editor who sits in the cube across from me. He found out he had a ticket in Pittsburgh, a city he had never been to, when he tried to transfer his license to a new state. No lawyer would take the case either. He eventually went to an identity theft company, who took $400 and fixed the issue in three months. I use to work in Identity Management at a major university. A number of people came through our systems without SSNs. We had a complicated set of rules to make sure we didn't provision two accounts. We'd check if the names were reversed and we'd check both the month/date = date/month on the date of birth (people from other countries might enter it backwards without thinking about it). We even had rules for SSNs that were off by <2 digits with similar names. Every morning we'd have a set of "manual provisions" we'd have to stop and check. Occasionally duplicate accounts get created and we'd have to go through a big manual process of combining them and telling them "You need to use this account; forget about the other one. It no longer exists," and get their stuff synced across all AD domains (Universities typically have several). What surprises me about this article is the NYC system doesn't use the SSN (which is good in a sense, it should never be used as a identification number, see the latest GCP Greg: [this video] ). The idea of an identity and criminal record us that follows us digitally is a very new concept, one that didn't exist 150+ years
Cited for why SSNs should not be used as identifiers
@htgb Apr 2018 Cites it
on HN thread A privacy flaw in Comcast's automated telephone system
Yeah, I suppose that's right. And as you say, it's very practical. > Keep in mind that the social number in USA is apparently also supposed to be secret (like a password) which sounds absolutely crazy to me. That's very true, reminds me of this video [1] by CGP Grey, giving some background of the issue. [1] [this video]
Gives background on SSNs being treated as secrets
@ijpsud Feb 2020 Cites it
on HN thread Ask HN: What is the single top-priority software engineering problem?
I was talking about this with a friend the other day. I don't know about the technical feasibility (RE sybil attack[0]), but if it were possible, it would have a massive impact on the web. The current state of the art (in terms of new user signup) is using phone numbers as representing unique "trustable" people, which is kind of absurd. This reminds me of how social security numbers weren't originally intended to be used as unique identification, but the demand for some form of identification was so strong that organisations ended up hackily using it anyway.[1] [0] [link] [1] [this video]
Cited as example of a number repurposed as identification
@d4mi3n Apr 2021 Cites it
on HN thread Security Breach at US Universities
Read more
They are in fact not great IDs and the Social Security Administration asked very nicely for the rest of the country to not use them as a form of identification: [this video] A few reasons why SSNs are bad as IDs: 1. There are a number of situations where people will not have a SSN. 2. SSNs are "secrets" that need to be broadly shared to participate in many parts of business and government in the US. 3. SSNs lack many security and authentication mechanisms most forms of ID have (e.g. photo ID) There are folks in the US who rally against the idea of a national ID, but I've always thought it was a silly argument considering how pervasive and problematic SSNs are as a form of identification.
Cited for SSA's request not to use SSNs as ID

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